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Riseofpersia.com • View topic - Iranian Women Warriors

Riseofpersia.com

Rise of Persia - a full modification for Rome: Total War, based around the rise of the Achaemenid Persian dynasty.
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 Post subject: Iranian Women Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:04 am 
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First I would like to say that I'm very grateful of all the developers of this great mod :) ,
for making it possible for me to proudly play the game with my Ancestors :P

I have only one suggestion for the mod:
Image
Description: Ancient Iranian Women-Warriors. In unique Avestan pastoralist equestrian warrior society, women fought alongside their men, this so called upside-down society both fascinated and horrified the male dominated Greek and Romans cultures

I was looking on Wikipedia for info about Iran, when I saw this picture under Military of Iran. I then thought immediately of you guys :P

I want to ask you to include a similar (female warrior) unit in the mod, it would definitely look cool.

I hope you can manage this :)

Greetz from Milad


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:39 pm 
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Welcome to the forum, Milad! It's a pleasure for me to see other Iranians here. :lol:

I looked it up in Wikipedia; but I didn't find the picture or even the article. There was an article about military of Iran, but I was unable to find the information you've offered in it. Could you please give me the page's URL? I do really like to read the article. :wink:

And I must add it gives me an immense feeling of pride looking at this drawing! :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:36 am 
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Ba Dorood Milad :)
Wow ,It's cool. I did know about female iranian warrior during Ashkanian and Sassanian dynasties ,but haven't heared about female hakhamanishi female warriors ,It's really amazing. As Babak requested ,if you provide us that link or if you have more info on it ,We would be so thankful.

Thanks beforehand
-Kambiz


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:00 am 
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As far as evidence for female Achaemenid warriors goes I have only heard of one instance. There was a tomb excavated at Persepolis with a female buried amongst weapons and armour.

However there is nothing to suggest that Iranian women fought on any sort of scale in war. If they did the Greeks surely would have made a bigger deal of it. I think the emergence of female warrior Persians occured and reached its zenith in Sassanian times.

Even if we did have solid evidence for female warriors interspersed amongst the army, the RTW engine would mean we would have to make a whole unit of women warriors. And this would be entirely inaccurate

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:00 am 
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bump

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:58 am 
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Salam doostan :) & thank you for your warm welcome.

the wiki-article where I first found the picture was simply here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran (scroll down to 'Military')
but I searched a bit more and found this great article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_women
(derived from this source: http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Women/avestan_women.htm)
where there is a whole lot more info, describing the picture.
(& what makes me proud being Persian :P) check this photo of real modern (Tajiki-)Persian girls :oops: : Image

And for rez, I ask you to read that article first before you decide again...
I think there is enough evidence stated there that these women warriors did exist in Acheamenid(/Avestan) times
and were of great value.

You could at least put em in the game as some kind of rare highly trained royal bodyguards besides the male ones,
where there also weren't a whole lot more of... you know what I mean?
(they would differ in stats: lower armor but more speed for instance)

If they wouldn't be playable in this mod.. in what other mod would they be?....
I hope you will consider it rez, I'll hear from ya :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:22 pm 
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It would be a poorly proved and largely ahistorical addition. My colleague Mr. Suren-Pahlav who painted this (Courtesy of CAIS) meant to portray various cameos of the Iranic peoples. The woman warrior at the front indeed wears equipment from different times. She bears a modular Phrygian cap of leather, but it bears the symbol of the Sûrên-Pahlav clan of the blue Mithra symbol (Crescent and star/sun), a clan prominent only in Partho-Sassanian times. Her right arm is adorned, not only by a bracer of bronze, but she has an armlet with the Derafsh-î Kâviyânî symbol, it too being mainly Partho-Sassanian. Her intricately decorated trousers point at Scythian designs, and the bronzen cuirass depicts reliefs of the Frâvahar and the Sên-Mûrv. Her shield is of the Taka (Crescent) type, popular among cavalrymen. Her bow is outdated (By later composite standards), being of a single piece. Her spear is decorated with various dyed tassels, but her mount has a very primitive panoply and neither she nor her companions seem to ride on saddle-cloths, let alone a proper saddle. The bridle too is decorated, but considering the simplicitly cannot be too advanced. The female cavalry in the background seems to carry a pilum'esque spear.

So what conclusion can we draw from Mr. Suren-Pahlav's painting? Well, first off let us dismiss it entirely by simply stating that it is largely symbolic and meant to show cameos from all possible Iranic peoples. It is meant to be symbolic. Dr. Farrokh's plates reflect historical realism with his depictions of women in warfare. Dismissing Roman propaganda on how the Parthians treated their women, they never truly surrendered their nomadic roots, and would at the very least have fielded skilled women when the Parthians still were merely the Pârnî. So the evidence of Iranian women in war exist, what is the problem? Well, the problem is that RTW is very hardcoded in many aspects. If the RoP team wanted women to be a part of the Persian warfare, they would need to dedicate an entire model, just to field a unit consisting entirely of women. That is the problem, and in this respect I understand why RoP has decided to scrap such an idea. Perhaps with M2TW it is possible, but even then, the team would stand in front of another problem; Lack of data. They will need a feasible ratio of men and women, and in Iranian history, no matter how influential women could have been, women were never in significant amount as to at least match the amount of men.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:52 pm 
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Thank you Milad for the information you have provided for us.

@The Persian Cataphract
Thanks for the Clarifications. You say "women were never in significant amount as to at least match the amount of men."
Are you taliking about just "Achaemenid" (And almost "Ashkanian") periods or it also includes Sassanian era? Because as far as I know ,we have good evidences about Iranian Women Warriors at the reign of Sassanians.

Thanks in advance
-Kambiz (Cambyses :wink: )

P.S : @Milad in finglish ; Doste man ,behtare daste kam dar neveshtar , vazheye(Word) "Dorood" ro be jaye "Salam" be kar bebari :wink: Sepasgozaram.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:11 pm 
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hmm scythian. i am 100% sure that picture represents the Parthian dynasty. i mean if parthians had a lines from Scythia maybe they also brought scythian traditions with em such as the Amazon Warriors who were formidable archers on horse. but again i really think we do need a horse archer for parsa. i mean parsa did use horse archers from Scythia throughout their campaigns, specially Darius.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:12 pm 
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The Persian Cataphract covered that nicely. I'd like to emphasise the fact that the article refers mostly to the northern Iranians of the steppe rather than the urbanised Persians.

If we were to implement female Iranian warriors they would be most likely in the Bactrian faction rather than the other two.

Edit:
Quote:
but again i really think we do need a horse archer for parsa. i mean parsa did use horse archers from Scythia throughout their campaigns, specially Darius.


I'd be interested to see solid evidence of Persian blooded horseman using bows on horseback rather than their Palta in war and on a large scale. Bear in mind this evidence must apply to the early empire.

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