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Riseofpersia.com • View topic - [title lost]

Riseofpersia.com

Rise of Persia - a full modification for Rome: Total War, based around the rise of the Achaemenid Persian dynasty.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:42 am 
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Hi folks,

First, I want to say that I look through Sir Wooley's groundbreaking book on Babyon and found little to nothing on Babylonian military structure! A most challenging research!

Maybe the Anabasis describes the death throws of the Babylonian empire, don't know. I'll see.

The bible says a number of things about Babylon:

I. In the later part of the Babylonian empire, Daniel 6: 29 says that Belshazzar made Daniel 3rd in the Kingdom in authority, in other words: The King (Belshazzar's father who was away at another city during this evernt), Belshazzar himself and Daniel as a co-regent. After that "Darius the Mede" became the 1st King of the Median empire, not Persian empire. The persians came later!
BTW, Archaeological info confirms that Belshazzar was acting king while his father was "not home," at a different city, worshpping his gods.

Don't forget the Medes or Madai in this mods construction, as they're called in non-biblical literature!

2.The Babylonians are viewed here as a vicious and pityless people, bent upon conquering. It also portrays Babylon both as avessel used by God and both to be punished by God for "going overboard," in it's destruction of the Jews and Jerusalem as well.

Jeremiah 51:3 "him who bends the bow...nor let him rise up in his scale armor" Referring to Babylonian gear
51:56 "Their bows are shattered' Referring to Babylon
Ezekiel 17:21 "All the choice men in all his troops will fall by the sword" Referring to Jewish King Zedekiah
by Babylon
Ezekiel 26:7 "horses, chariots, cavalry and an assembly, even many people"
Ezekiel 26:8 "..slay your daughters..with the sword....cast a ramp against you and raise up a large shield against you."
26:9 "The blow of his battering rams..."

By the way, Babylon in the bible, is largely mentioned during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar.
The Siege engines, ie. Battering rams attached to wheeled, animal skin covered pavises, needed level ground to manuever properly.
No archaeological finding has shown a ramp or a ram moving on a ramp in a "hill & crest" manner!

Last but NOT least, Indo-European, Indo-Germanic, Indo-whatever, peoples migrated to where they are now.
These peoples, including the greeks MIGRATED to their current "countries." Hence, they mad use of the Russian Steppe(s)! Most Europeans more than likely were at one point "steppish" peoples, if you will.
Who knows what peoples were not "steppe" peoples in one sense of the word? Maybe the Africans, Thais, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians, etc. Extreme Southeast Asians, excluding the Chinese.

Groooovy! Hellas1


Last edited by hellas1 on Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:46 am 
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good work hellas1 this is more like it. Though the babylonians were probably related to the sumerians and elamites. They werent from the caucasus. And the reason they call it the mede empire and not persian was because back then (during persian supremacy) the two were not distinguishable to foreigners. Notably greece

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:30 pm 
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Hellas1, please continue using the bible as a source. This work looks pretty promising.

I have almost done a unit list for Babylon with the help of the language, but details like the colours of their cloths or the specific type of armour are often not named.

I think, using the bible here can be valuable, as it already revealed the use of scale mail (as it was to exspect anyway). Please try to read the original, or at least the ancient (!!!) Greek version. Often some information is lost due to translations.
The Greeks for example had many words for different kind of spears and a dory is usually significantly smaller than a kontos, yet english translations almost always translate both simply as "spear".

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Last edited by FliegerAD on Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:42 am 
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Hey all,

I tried, what can I say? The Babylonian material IS very sparse indeed.

Any other Biblical material deals primarily with Nebuchadnezzar and NOT pertinent to this mod, as it is in a later time period.

HOWEVER! Soon, this year, 2 new versions of the Septuagint are coming out.
One from the Greek Orthodox Church, the other from IOSCS.
I being greek can read the original greek.
The Septuagint was used in the time of J.C. and if I can view those Biblical verses in Greek, I can translate them more appropriately than the Greek Orthodox or IOSCS versions, which I doubt I could do.

Hope my friends, I'm trying to find military sources.

Peace, Hellas1
P.S. Get me some help! ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:09 am 
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hellas1 wrote:
P.S. Get me some help! ;)


Just because you don't see any research progress from other people, it does not mean, you are alone. ;-)

I have made a pretty good unit list. We know how they fought, how they were equipped. It will be discussed in team. Actually, researching Babylon is much easier than Lydia has been.

Using the bible as a historical source is a science of its own. But you should not be afraid of presenting information that is related with Nebuchadnezzar. Please do it. It can be valueable.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:01 pm 
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Hi,

If Nebuchadnezzar is what you want Nebu is what you'll get sir! :)

BTW, I'll look online for a version of the Anabasis, cool? Cool.

Later, Hellas1 Prophet Hellathustra! Yowwwwwwww! :rolleyes:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:48 pm 
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dont worry about the anabasis hellas1 both flieger and i have a copy and the stories of xenophon don't really have much weight behind them for analysing the early achaemenids

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:33 am 
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Oh well.

Nebuchadnezzar it is!

Ciao, Mi Amore's! ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:30 am 
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Well folks, bad news.

I looked up every verse in the Bible about Nebuchadnezzar and what I've already posted about him is all I could find militarily speaking.

Soo, with that I conclude my contribution to ROP I, unless Lydia still needs work.

Your humble servant, Hellas1

P.S. I'm available for ROP II though! :lol:


Last edited by hellas1 on Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:09 am 
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many thanks for your time Hellas1 you will be noted as a worthy contributer.

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